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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>MCP: Deref Patterns lang-team#77 · t-lang/major changes · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/index.html">t-lang/major changes</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html">MCP: Deref Patterns lang-team#77</a></h3>

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<a name="222802715"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222802715" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> triagebot <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222802715">(Jan 14 2021 at 23:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>A new proposal has been announced: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/77">MCP: Deref Patterns #77</a>. It will be announced at the next meeting to try and draw attention to it, but usually MCPs are not discussed during triage meetings. If you think this would benefit from discussion amongst the team, consider proposing a design meeting.</p>



<a name="222820307"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222820307" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222820307">(Jan 15 2021 at 04:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Awesome. I'd love to see the remaining issues addressed so that this could become possible.</p>



<a name="222820465"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222820465" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222820465">(Jan 15 2021 at 05:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Direct link to the discussion document from the issue: <a href="https://hackmd.io/GBTt4ptjTh219SBhDCPO4A">https://hackmd.io/GBTt4ptjTh219SBhDCPO4A</a></p>



<a name="222820470"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222820470" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222820470">(Jan 15 2021 at 05:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I added a few notes under syntax options.</p>



<a name="222829959"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222829959" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222829959">(Jan 15 2021 at 08:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I with we still used the RFC process for major additions like this.<br>
It's good to have a public document at a predictable location describing the motivation, alternatives, etc in detail.<br>
Random hackmd's are not discoverable and will be lost quickly.</p>



<a name="222830438"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222830438" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222830438">(Jan 15 2021 at 08:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>MCP also turns public discussion into an effectively internal one, because the RFC repo is the place to which people are subscribed, not zulip threads and random hackmd's.</p>



<a name="222830522"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222830522" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222830522">(Jan 15 2021 at 08:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I haven't seen a single example where MCP would be an improvement for the lang changes over the previously existing FCPs on PRs (for small stuff) and RFCs (for larger stuff).</p>



<a name="222830538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222830538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Vadim Petrochenkov <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222830538">(Jan 15 2021 at 08:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Feel free to move the meta to a separate thread.)</p>



<a name="222841632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222841632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Dirkjan Ochtman <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222841632">(Jan 15 2021 at 10:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I tend to agree this would need an RFC, but maybe the MCP is intended to check if (someone on) lang team has bandwidth for this?</p>



<a name="222862588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222862588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Connor Horman <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222862588">(Jan 15 2021 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I brought the MCP with a dual purpose. One is making sure that, yes, the lang team does have the time to address this before an RFC is produced, but also I would like to use the MCP to resolve the major questions on deref patterns before the RFC is brought. This would also serve to decide how much the first version of this RFC would seak to add, and how much would be reserved to later.</p>



<a name="222962323"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222962323" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222962323">(Jan 16 2021 at 05:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Accepting an MCP that <em>leads to</em> an eventual RFC is exactly how the Safe Transmute project has been working out.</p>



<a name="222964140"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/222964140" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#222964140">(Jan 16 2021 at 06:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, this is not a project that could go directly from MCP to implementation. I would fully expect this to be a project that collaboratively develops a full RFC.</p>



<a name="223268219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/223268219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> triagebot <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#223268219">(Jan 19 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1977">@T-lang</span>: Proposal <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/77#issuecomment-763026794">#77</a> has been seconded, and will be approved in 10 days if no objections are raised.</p>



<a name="223268670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/223268670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> scottmcm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#223268670">(Jan 19 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="257758">Connor Horman</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377/near/222862588">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I brought the MCP with a dual purpose. One is making sure that, yes, the lang team does have the time to address this before an RFC is produced, but also I would like to use the MCP to resolve the major questions on deref patterns before the RFC is brought. This would also serve to decide how much the first version of this RFC would seak to add, and how much would be reserved to later.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hmm, I don't know that an MCP is a great way to actually make a scoping decision, especially since they now only take a second, not a team-fcp.</p>



<a name="223277484"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/223277484" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#223277484">(Jan 19 2021 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125270">scottmcm</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377/near/223268670">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="257758">Connor Horman</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377/near/222862588">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I brought the MCP with a dual purpose. One is making sure that, yes, the lang team does have the time to address this before an RFC is produced, but also I would like to use the MCP to resolve the major questions on deref patterns before the RFC is brought. This would also serve to decide how much the first version of this RFC would seak to add, and how much would be reserved to later.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hmm, I don't know that an MCP is a great way to actually make a scoping decision, especially since they now only take a second, not a team-fcp.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't think we'd make that decision <em>in</em> the MCP, exactly. Rather, I think we'd make that decision by way of approving a charter.</p>



<a name="223277530"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/223277530" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#223277530">(Jan 19 2021 at 19:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>The MCP second would just be "this seems like a problem worth addressing, we should solve part or all of this problem".</p>



<a name="223277577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/243200-t-lang/major%20changes/topic/MCP%3A%20Deref%20Patterns%20lang-team%2377/near/223277577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/243200-t-lang/major-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20Deref.20Patterns.20lang-team.2377.html#223277577">(Jan 19 2021 at 19:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>The project group could work with the liaison and the lang team to write a charter, and the charter would define scopes of the problem to be addressed.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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